We realized we need to get a new car, as our 2001 car is on its last legs. I realize I've never actually bought a car, always just got hand-me-downs, so I don't know how to reason about such a large purchase. We're thinking PHEV (plugin hybrid), and we're a family that mostly takes very short trips. Any rec's?

@pamelafox I would get a compact SUV like a Mazda CX30. Safe and easy to see but not too big. Enough space for 4. If you have solar panels then PHEV or pure electric would be nice. Depends how much stuff you need to carry about which changes as the kids get older 🚲 🏄

@tonybaloney we dont have solar yet, maybe next year, cant we jus plug into a normal outlet?

@pamelafox
We just bought a Chevy Bolt for my wife's short commute. She charges it like once a month. IMO if you almost always do short journeys you're better off with pure electric and then renting something that burns fossil fuels for long journeys. One benefit of that is that you can tailor your rental to the long trip. Going camping - rent a pickup, going skiing - rent a 4wd that's big enough to carry skis.

@ian my partners worried about pure electric, about having to find charging stations for the very rare longer trips. i have to convince him somehow.

@pamelafox yes but you’ll be paying more on electric than you would for gas. Not sure about California specifically.
I’d also be looking at how easy the seats and interior are to clean (food, glitter, sun cream). Considering the payload 😁

@tonybaloney oh yeah our current interior is Mid-Century Cheerios :)

oh, and our daily short trip is over a very very steep hill, and my mum claims her hybrid barely makes it up

@pamelafox Molded rubber floor mats are the best! Mazda and other brands have a sort of fake-leather option which is easier to clean than leather. Cloth is a big no with drinks, food and whatever else they bring in the car 🫣 reversing cameras, sensors, lane assist are all nice if you don’t drive all the time but standard in most cars now.

@tonybaloney id be so excited for a reversing camera! i actually avoid highways as passing cars gives me anxiety but maybe i'll attempt highways with a modern car... maybe.

@pamelafox that’s why I’d suggest a compact SUV. The extra height in the driving position makes it loads easier to see on the highway. But they’re not awkwardly large like the big trucks. The field-of-view varies a lot between brands as well so test drive a few.

@tonybaloney yeah makes sense- my current car is a forester and i love its size, trying to find similar.

@ian can the bolt get up the steep hills? (marin, moeser)

@pamelafox a used Toyota 4Runner for steep hill climbs and descents. For more details check the buying guides on www.t4r.org based on your budget.

@pamelafox Ford Escape PHEV, or if AWD is important to you and you want to pay a bit more, a Toyota RAV4 Prime.

@pamelafox you might be able to save an extraordinary amount of money and hassle by going #CarFree and just renting a car when you absolutely need one.

My partner and I live at the top of a very big steep hill, and we're so happy we switched our car out for e-bikes, which typically cost about the same as just a single month of car ownership. Plus no cost of gas, registration, inspection, maintenance, parking, etc...

@lucas i got a e-bike, but alas, I don't have the calf strength to get up the hill to my kids school, especially with 2 lil kids in town.

@pamelafox Best of luck with your car hunt! Out of curiousity, about how long are those trips? Asking as an insufferable member of the electric car evangelist posse.

(If you did decide to look at electrics, @show does consulting for potential buyers)

@ACTupper @show They are ~10 minutes, but up/down a very long steep hill that gives me the heebie jeebies.

@ACTupper @pamelafox Without being too invoked, if you can charge at home, you should find an all-electric model is a good choice.

Depending on your budget, if you're looking for a sedan, the Hyundai IONIQ 6 is the best bang for buck that isn't a Tesla. The Hyundai IONIQ5 or Kia EV 6 (it's the same car underneath) is a good crossover-ish car. For Hatchback, we love the Kia e-Niro (although it doesn't charge as quickly)

Other good choices are the Volkswagen ID.4 (If you're a Volkswagen person) but the Kia/Hyundai IONIQ/EV6 combinations are the quickets to charge for the least money.

@show @ACTupper thanks! time to learn more lingo (crossover/hatchback). i have to admit that when i look at cars i just notice their "eyes" (headlight shape) and judge based on that (mean car/happy car). i'm a horrible car buyer.

@pamelafox @ian It's an understandable apprehension. Speaking as someone who just switched to an electric (from a 2012 hybrid) and have since road tripped down the US East coast in it, the charging situation is decent and getting better fast. Plenty of places to fast charge, lots of informational resources on where to charge, and dedicated route planning are already in place.

@ACTupper @ian my partner and i both hate driving, so i dont see a lot of road trips in our future. longest trip we've done is 2 hours, and that was out of necessity.

@pamelafox We will most likely replace our Toyota Wish with a Prius Alpha/v which is a station-wagon form factor, and can be set up to seat 2, 5, or 7 depending on your need to carry people or things.

More generally, I test drive the routes I’d normally take most to get a feel for how comfortable the car is in day to day conditions, and prioritise comfort/ergonomics over flashy stuff.

@pamelafox if the kids are still using car seats then taking one along to see how easy they are to shuffle around is worth doing, as well.

Reversing cameras are gold.

The biggest thing that worries me about any modern car is the amount of expensive-to-replace stuff that can go wrong. Cameras instead of wing mirrors? Motorised door handles? It just seems like big bills waiting to happen.

@rodgerd yeahhh that worries me too, and my partner hates when cars have been over-smart-ified

Update: Our neighbor (with a Tesla) thinks we don't have the right electric setup to charge an electric car. Our garage outlet isn't grounded and our fuse box isn't up to code. So... do we have to redo all our electric setup first? Blargh.

@pamelafox Do PHEVs have single-pedal driving? If not I would recommend getting an EV. That itself makes driving experience much more pleasant.

@pamelafox It all depends on how much you want to charge and how fast, which is defined by the car you are charging. If you truly have a “fuse” box then you likely need to upgrade your electric service. If you want to get a full charge at home, you’ll probably need 220v service which requires an electrical upgrade in many cases, depending on the car.

@pamelafox we had an electrician come and see this up, it wasn’t much of a big deal

@Migueldeicaza @pamelafox yeah, the biggest issue (which might be better/ironed out now) is panel availability. You might just have to wait a while. There are also incentives for panel upgrades.

@danhon @Migueldeicaza the last time we asked an electrician for a quote, they said we had to redo everything, 15K, due to the circuit breaker being in a closet. thats the most rec'd electrician around here, but maybe I should ask some more.

@pamelafox random follower here and not an electrician but : An outlet that's not grounded - is that not a dangerous thing to have?

@urig err i think so... but am getting confused now between grounded and GFCI.. am not so good at hardware.

@rcode3 This is what our house inspection report said: "The main panel is a cartridge-fuse type and is located in a compartment at the right front exterior, near the gas meter. The panel enclosure is rated by the manufacturer at 100 amps, 120/240 volts."

@urig Okay just read my inspection report again, it says "The garage area is not provided with GFCI-protected receptacles as required in new construction." sooo I think its grounded but not GFCI

@pamelafox So if you want 220/240v charging at 48 amps to fully charge a BEV overnight, you either need to make sure you are not using electricity elsewhere, especially an electric dryer, or upgrade the service from the power company to your house. Even without that, chances are there is no single 48 amp circuit. You are most likely looking at service upgrades for overnight full charges. The type of charging you do depends on the car.

@pamelafox @urig grounding is safer than ungrounded, for sure. You can buy a ground tester for < $20 to verify (some ungrounded outlets still have the third prong because so many plus have them now).

GFCI is another layer of safety. It detects surges and quickly cuts off the power. Most building codes require GFCI anywhere an outlet can get wet (kitchen, bath, garage). They’re about $20 each plus labor (I’ve installed a bunch myself to save money.)

@pamelafox You could take a wait and see approach. Get the vehicle and figure out your needs from there. Just understand that if you want faster charging, you’ll likely need to upgrade electrical service, and that can be a big range of cost. It cost us $1500, but I know people who spent over $6000.

@rcode3 soo does upgrading electrical service mean like literally changing the wire that goes to our house? and thanks for all the tips!

@pamelafox I maybe am in the minority, but I still charge my tesla on a regular 120v. though my daily commuting is only approx 50-60 miles total.

Don’t let the wall thing stop you from buying first

@whaley okay i'll have to see why my tesla neighbor doesnt think it'll work.

@pamelafox It depends on building codes and your power company, but almost certainly yes. I doubt they would be willing to run a second line because that would mean two meters. So my guess is that at a minimum, upgraded service from the power company, an upgraded panel, and running a new power outlet line. That will cost $$$ probably.

@pamelafox pamela i just went through all of this (still going through it tbh). if the panel is fine you likely don’t need to upgrade but it’s possible that your neighbor was suggesting that a 110 plug (regular outlet) wouldn’t be suitable for fast L2 charging and that you’d want something like a dryer outlet either at 24/36/48A. if you have short like <20mi/day commutes you can absolutely get by on a 110 plug charging overnight. you would only need to upgrade your panel if it’s actually a dangerous model or if you’ve reached capacity (ie you can’t add anymore breakers). we also had an interior sub panel in a closet that nobody would touch because of code, but everyone just pretends it doesn’t exist because the main is outside. our main panel upgrade cost like $6k iirc and it mostly got us the ability to put a large sub panel in our garage for solar etc. i like our ioniq 5 but i considered the ioniq6 also, its smaller and more sedan like and honestly would have worked just as fine for our purposes, lots of good options nowadays, happy to chat more if you have any other qs.

@pamelafox plugins are kinda expensive because you lug around two heavy engines. The cheaper option for a family with mostly short trips is a battery electric vehicle and, if the charging infrastructure in your country does not support going long distances with electricity, borrowing a traditional car for the one or two long trips per year (or going by train if available).

@pamelafox I‘m mostly happy with my Nissan Leaf, except the plug type is CHAdeMO, and only 10% of the fast charging stations in my country are CHAdeMO, so that is a bit of a pain in the ass.

@GreenSkyOverMe oooh fascinating, our neighbors have a nissan leaf, so I'll ask them where they charge if I can manage to run into them. (I've just been scoping cars this week lol)